I'm getting a supercharger...And my father wonders where all of my money goes. haha! Just wondering to all of you car guys out there if I should also indulge in a cold air intake as well?
In reply to sunshineykit, #1: definetly babe hit that up i got ram air but may be moving to cold air intake im also getting a blower also check my car out in my profile :-D let me know what u think
I would like to blame my boyfriend for all of my spending and my new obsession with my car and street racing. I drive a 1994 mazda miata convertable. I love it to pieces. I have been saving up money to do all sorts of stuff to it. Yes I do like to race and I am a bit of a speed deamon. My friend has an Acura RSX and he loves to race with me. Of course he beats me all of the time (his car is modded). It is still fun to hit 100 mph every once in a while.
You're putting a supercharger on a Miata? HOLY BALLS. ;) Fun stuff.... You won't need to worry much about cold air when you have 300 horses pushing that little tiny light-weight thing around! You'll need to upgrade your tires though I think, and perhaps traction bars in back if they make any that would fit.
ever see a F20C swapped into a miata? it's in the new issue of Super Street magazine. lol they even put in the S2000's digital instrument panel. that thing's crazy.
Just do us all a favor and keep the weight the car has in it.. Its light enough as it is and if she gets even the slightest bit squirrely, that can be lights out. I've seen too many "Miata days" at the local road track, and too many of them end up in the wall or infield. Other then that, blower that baby to hell and back, and cold air is debatable considdering your going to be forcing as much air as possible into the cylenders, but hey it wouldn't hurt.
but still at least swap out the engine with somethin decent that car is probly pushin 160 hp w/o that super charger with the super charger it'll maybe push 250 pending on the super charger put in
The only thing a turbo and supercharger have in common are is that they force compressed air into a motor...
There is a reason why big motors are supercharged and small motors are turbocharged...
you just wont make any decent power gains with a supercharger on a small motor. Its like giving an Olympic athlete a straw to breath threw...
Thing is turbo kits have more options and more room for expansion. They offer an almost limitless world availability of different sized turbos and intercoolers in turn will allow for a great deal of very detailed tuning. There are turbochargers galore that can be matched to suit an engine's flow pattern and needs, with a plethora of intercoolers available to compliment the compressor of choice. Most superchargers just don't have that option. (I'm mainly talking about Roots based superchargers. I've touched on the reason why I feel that centrifugal superchargers are poorly matched to the small displacement motor.) Adiabatic efficiency is supreme when it comes to a boosted intake charge, and there's no getting around the benefits of an intercooler setup. In fact, other than a motor's limitations regarding the amount of power it can hold, the only other limiting factor when it comes to boost is the amount of boost you can make before the intake charge is heated so much that you see a loss in power. An intercooler allows for a cooler charge after the air is compressed, which allows for more compression, which, in turn, allows for more cfm of flow from the compressor. More air being moved is always a good thing.
With a properly set up turbo you wont need to worry about what's going on in your motor as much as you would a supercharger... a supercharger just moves air depending on your altitude your 12lbs of boost could be 9lbs or it could be 14lbs, reason is superchargers rely on ambient air with no control of a wastegate... where as with a turbo, if you boosting 12lbs it will be 12lbs in the plenum because of the added benefit of a wastegate.
I do realize the differences between a torbo and sc. And your statement on the limited similarity is true. However in a car like a Miata (lightweight and RWD) adding a turbo could potentially make the car harder to drive. A SC gives you a linear power gain, granted there is power loss due to how the SC is powered, and the SC has a lower power output, but there is no spool up time or kick once boost pressure reaches an effective level.
Also, there are options for intercoolers for superchargers, they are not limited to turbos only. A lot more needs to be taken into account than just saying that all small engines should have turbos. Your statement of that is not entirely correct. Look into the Mini and the Chevy Cobalt. Both of thoe are smaller engines that have supercharger options. A lot has to do with driver preference also.
You can geta a linear power gain if you use a small turbo, and don't take it to extremes... I've had to many friends slap a t3t4 onto a b16 bragging about how amazing their cars are.... yeah well not till 4k! I have a kit im getting pretty soon that uses a t28r which will be perfect for my car with no worries of turbo lag... Sure the JRSC could have been an option, solid off the line power, decent gains in the hp, something called torque gets added too... Thing is the turbo kit just seemed like a better buy... Maybe its because I've heard with the right turbo setup you can increase your volumetric efficiency...
You bring up the mini, im not sure why they used a super charger for that motor, maybe to give it some more bottom end umph? At sema last year there was some company who turbocharged the Cooper S motor with the supercharger still installed and were pushing out about 350hp... I wonder how long something like that will last... About the cobalt, i haven't even took the time research the car... =o(
Anyhow it just comes down to my bias of little motors turbocharger because you always have room to play... Big motors take your pick... nothing better then hearing the sound of a blown C6, or even a tuned SVT...
You bring up the mini, im not sure why they used a super charger for that motor, maybe to give it some more bottom end umph? At sema last year there was some company who turbocharged the Cooper S motor with the supercharger still installed and were pushing out about 350hp... I wonder how long something like that will last... About the cobalt, i haven't even took the time research the car... =o(
Heh, I was not really that impressed with the cobalt, but then again I have an Evo. In regards to the Mini, there is a guy on these forums, 1nF3Rn0, that is getting one of the Mini's you saw at the SEMA show. Not sure if it is the same company and he'd be a better person to ask about it.
It was a small little company who was displaying it... The only reason I even noticed them was because they were next to the Dart booth... mmmm dart engine block, they have a b16 block running 30psi...
I'll look around for the flyer I picked up from their both with dyno charts, I save most of that stuff for a whole year...
Evo huh, RS?
speaking of Evo's, It always brings up my Scooby memories... Last year at SEMA It was the last day of the show. I was about $500 in the hole and somewhat hungover... I'm walking by the Subaru section and accidentally tip over one of their racing trees breaking about ten lights... It was horrible I thought they were gonna kill me...
speaking of Evo's, It always brings up my Scooby memories... Last year at SEMA It was the last day of the show. I was about $500 in the hole and somewhat hungover... I'm walking by the Subaru section and accidentally tip over one of their racing trees breaking about ten lights... It was horrible I thought they were gonna kill me...
Ouch that would have sucked. Nothing personal, but if I was there, I probably laughed. I just don't like the front ends of the scoobys though. As far as the Evo, I bought a GSR. I rarely use vehicle A/C but it is nice to have on that one or two days I actually do use it a year. So, because of this, a sunroof was a must, so I evned up with a GSR with the sun/sound/leather package. Just about as expensive as you can get and I don't have a single regret.
Hey in that miata, what super kit ya going with? The jackson racing? I too drive a miata. '01 mostly stock except I dropped all the exhaust rear of the cat off it. Put a racing beat conical filter on it. Lost some low end and picked up some high. I guess really I'm just tuning the engine to its strengths. If I have good high end and poor low end I'd rather have great high end and shit poor low end.
You are going to need to get some larger performance tires. I've used Firestone Firehawk's on my Dodge Daytona. They grip to the road very well and they have excellent handling. But they are a very low milage tire and very expensive. I get about 10,000 miles to them. They cost about a 100 dollars a piece.
You are going to need to get some larger performance tires. I've used Firestone Firehawk's on my Dodge Daytona. They grip to the road very well and they have excellent handling. But they are a very low milage tire and very expensive. I get about 10,000 miles to them. They cost about a 100 dollars a piece.
Those tires are actually pretty inexpensive. My Yokos are about the same wear rating and cost about $225 from a discount store.
You got lied to. About the best a miata bottom end can handle is 8-10, some might make 12, anyhting over thats begging for problems. Especially the NBs. They run 10:1 compression so even if the lower end could handle the stress the compression would be so insane you'd have to run race fuel. Thats just silly for a street car.
Saying turbo kits offer more room for expansion is simplistic and a little ignorant. Supers come in all sizes, you can set them up with differant intercooler and pullys to change your boost. Tjheres probly a larger variety of supers than turbos. People with small engines tend to run turbos simply because thier motors make the power on the high end anyway so although supers have better low end grunt the high end loses power ( compared to ideal) because of parasytic loss from the super being run from a belt. Turbos play more to the engines strengths. Also supers make ever bit as much power as turbos, please do not mislead people by posting contrary. If you really want I can post ya up about 10 links to dyno numbers proving this. Thank you and good day.
my Kumho Ecsta Supras run about 350 a tire and last about 20,000 miles, but there is nothing like taking a right angle turn going 80, they are 295/35 z-rated tires
Wow, $350 per tire? That seems quite high to me. Where are you getting them from? Have you looked into tire rack? They have my Yoko's for just under $225 each. When I checked a local price, they were going to charge me about $1400 just for the tires not installation. Might save you some cash in the long run. I did check tire rack's prices but I didn't find the size you stated so I don't know if that was a typo or discontinued tire. You can just pop in your car make/model info and then choose from there.
Also supers make ever bit as much power as turbos, please do not mislead people by posting contrary.
They may produce the same amount of power, but the problem lies with the way a sc is driven. Being that it is driven by belt off the engine, it is taking power away from the wheels to run it. Whereas a turbo uses the exhaust gas to power it. Even if you were to match output between a turbo and a sc and then put them on an engine, the turbo would produce more power.
Turbo: Engine + boost = total power SC: Engine + boost - power loss from belt drive = total power
Sure, you can get the same amount of WHP using a sc in place of a turbo, but you need to run a higher boost capable sc.
miatas are sweet, they just look girly.
also you will probably need new fuel injectors, and some type of ecu upgrade, and possibly a boost control (try apexi's) for the blower.
car chicks=<3
For the same reason they put a turbo on a 2.0L. More power in a lighter weight package and gets decent fuel economy.
In reply to CoolDog, #10:
The only thing a turbo and supercharger have in common are is that they force compressed air into a motor...
There is a reason why big motors are supercharged and small motors are turbocharged...
you just wont make any decent power gains with a supercharger on a small motor. Its like giving an Olympic athlete a straw to breath threw...
Thing is turbo kits have more options and more room for expansion. They offer an almost limitless world availability of different sized turbos and intercoolers in turn will allow for a great deal of very detailed tuning. There are turbochargers galore that can be matched to suit an engine's flow pattern and needs, with a plethora of intercoolers available to compliment the compressor of choice. Most superchargers just don't have that option. (I'm mainly talking about Roots based superchargers. I've touched on the reason why I feel that centrifugal superchargers are poorly matched to the small displacement motor.) Adiabatic efficiency is supreme when it comes to a boosted intake charge, and there's no getting around the benefits of an intercooler setup. In fact, other than a motor's limitations regarding the amount of power it can hold, the only other limiting factor when it comes to boost is the amount of boost you can make before the intake charge is heated so much that you see a loss in power. An intercooler allows for a cooler charge after the air is compressed, which allows for more compression, which, in turn, allows for more cfm of flow from the compressor. More air being moved is always a good thing.
With a properly set up turbo you wont need to worry about what's going on in your motor as much as you would a supercharger... a supercharger just moves air depending on your altitude your 12lbs of boost could be 9lbs or it could be 14lbs, reason is superchargers rely on ambient air with no control of a wastegate... where as with a turbo, if you boosting 12lbs it will be 12lbs in the plenum because of the added benefit of a wastegate.
Also, there are options for intercoolers for superchargers, they are not limited to turbos only. A lot more needs to be taken into account than just saying that all small engines should have turbos. Your statement of that is not entirely correct. Look into the Mini and the Chevy Cobalt. Both of thoe are smaller engines that have supercharger options. A lot has to do with driver preference also.
You can geta a linear power gain if you use a small turbo, and don't take it to extremes... I've had to many friends slap a t3t4 onto a b16 bragging about how amazing their cars are.... yeah well not till 4k! I have a kit im getting pretty soon that uses a t28r which will be perfect for my car with no worries of turbo lag... Sure the JRSC could have been an option, solid off the line power, decent gains in the hp, something called torque gets added too... Thing is the turbo kit just seemed like a better buy... Maybe its because I've heard with the right turbo setup you can increase your volumetric efficiency...
You bring up the mini, im not sure why they used a super charger for that motor, maybe to give it some more bottom end umph? At sema last year there was some company who turbocharged the Cooper S motor with the supercharger still installed and were pushing out about 350hp... I wonder how long something like that will last... About the cobalt, i haven't even took the time research the car... =o(
Anyhow it just comes down to my bias of little motors turbocharger because you always have room to play... Big motors take your pick... nothing better then hearing the sound of a blown C6, or even a tuned SVT...
Heh, I was not really that impressed with the cobalt, but then again I have an Evo. In regards to the Mini, there is a guy on these forums, 1nF3Rn0, that is getting one of the Mini's you saw at the SEMA show. Not sure if it is the same company and he'd be a better person to ask about it.
I'll look around for the flyer I picked up from their both with dyno charts, I save most of that stuff for a whole year...
Evo huh, RS?
speaking of Evo's, It always brings up my Scooby memories... Last year at SEMA It was the last day of the show. I was about $500 in the hole and somewhat hungover... I'm walking by the Subaru section and accidentally tip over one of their racing trees breaking about ten lights... It was horrible I thought they were gonna kill me...
Ouch that would have sucked. Nothing personal, but if I was there, I probably laughed. I just don't like the front ends of the scoobys though. As far as the Evo, I bought a GSR. I rarely use vehicle A/C but it is nice to have on that one or two days I actually do use it a year. So, because of this, a sunroof was a must, so I evned up with a GSR with the sun/sound/leather package. Just about as expensive as you can get and I don't have a single regret.
Wow, what the hell am I smoking... that should read ended up with a GSR
:OOO
Those tires are actually pretty inexpensive. My Yokos are about the same wear rating and cost about $225 from a discount store.
You got lied to. About the best a miata bottom end can handle is 8-10, some might make 12, anyhting over thats begging for problems. Especially the NBs. They run 10:1 compression so even if the lower end could handle the stress the compression would be so insane you'd have to run race fuel. Thats just silly for a street car.
Saying turbo kits offer more room for expansion is simplistic and a little ignorant. Supers come in all sizes, you can set them up with differant intercooler and pullys to change your boost. Tjheres probly a larger variety of supers than turbos. People with small engines tend to run turbos simply because thier motors make the power on the high end anyway so although supers have better low end grunt the high end loses power ( compared to ideal) because of parasytic loss from the super being run from a belt. Turbos play more to the engines strengths. Also supers make ever bit as much power as turbos, please do not mislead people by posting contrary. If you really want I can post ya up about 10 links to dyno numbers proving this. Thank you and good day.
Take it easy in the rain.
Have fun.
Don't die.
my Kumho Ecsta Supras run about 350 a tire and last about 20,000 miles, but there is nothing like taking a right angle turn going 80, they are 295/35 z-rated tires
Wow, $350 per tire? That seems quite high to me. Where are you getting them from? Have you looked into tire rack? They have my Yoko's for just under $225 each. When I checked a local price, they were going to charge me about $1400 just for the tires not installation. Might save you some cash in the long run. I did check tire rack's prices but I didn't find the size you stated so I don't know if that was a typo or discontinued tire. You can just pop in your car make/model info and then choose from there.
Nice bit there padrescout. Perhaps you should swap the stock intake plumbing for something that would yield higher flow.
They may produce the same amount of power, but the problem lies with the way a sc is driven. Being that it is driven by belt off the engine, it is taking power away from the wheels to run it. Whereas a turbo uses the exhaust gas to power it. Even if you were to match output between a turbo and a sc and then put them on an engine, the turbo would produce more power.
Turbo: Engine + boost = total power
SC: Engine + boost - power loss from belt drive = total power
Sure, you can get the same amount of WHP using a sc in place of a turbo, but you need to run a higher boost capable sc.